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MK3 2ZZ-GE & TVS 1320 cost feeler

10K views 10 replies 10 participants last post by  Jared 
#1 · (Edited)
What I want and don't need:
I already have two cars.....but it would be cool to have a open-top mid-engine super-light-weight car with lots of power. Something I could drive around town on nice days and be the default auto-X car.
The problem is, I'm used to cars with a power/weight ratio of 135-190 hp/kip. A stock MK3 is only 63 hp/kip (boring) (138hp/2195lb). Even an MK3 with a 2ZZ-GE swap is only around 82 hp/kip (assuming 1zz and 2zz are approximately the same weight 180hp/2195lb). I don't think I'd like driving it very much like that.

A possible solution:
I'm guessing a 2ZZ-GE with the following mods would make upwards of 300 hp.
-8.8:1 pistons
-forged rods
-a small pulley driven TVS1320 with no intercooler
-e85 or methanol fuel
-header exhaust manifold
-catless downpipe
That would be a power/weight ratio of ~133 hp/kip (~300hp/~2250lb).
That sounds more fun.

What I don't know:
Has anybody done something like this already? Do MK3's go up for sale sometimes that are close to this? If so, what do they usually sell for? What would a set-up like this cost from scratch including the Mk3? What would the cost difference be between DIY vs. having a shop like MonkeyWrenchRacing do it?
I've found 8.8:1 pistons, forged rods and s/c intakes online for sale. I don't know if the OEM fuel pump has a high enough flow rate to support e85 or methanol. I don't know what higher flow injectors cost. I'm not sure if the OEM crankshaft can support 300+ hp. I don't know if the OEM transaxle, clutch or half-shalfs can support the increase in torque.

Backup Idea:
I'd rather not get a 2GR swap because i'm estimating it weighs about 100lb more than a s/c 2ZZ-GE with no intercooler. Lighter is usually faster in auto-x. But if a fully built 2ZZ engine costs a crazy amount compared to a 2GR, that could be another option.

What I don't want:
I don't really want an intercooler because alcohol should offer enough cooling and increase the octane rating enough by itself without adding weight. I don't want nitrous oxide because I'm pretty sure it's illegal in SCCA racing. I've heard Honda K20 engines aren't compatible with TVS s/c's because the pulley rotation is different. I don't really want a Miata because I think they look stupid and everybody has one.
 
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#2 ·
You are looking in the wrong place. If you want to know about SC 2ZZ's, you should look at a place where there are lots of them... like a lotus elise forum.

Basically, you are looking for a BOE fab sc setup in an mrs. It is ~275 non intercooled hp. Not sure if it would fit in a stock mrs engine bay. I suspect the reason why no one has done it is cost. Between a 2zz, basic swap parts and the sc kit, you are looking at $10,000 in parts, labor would be ~1000 extra. MSRP (and you will pay that thanks to the sparse dealership network) on the bare TVS1320 is almost $2500. You also need some sort of fuel/spark control, which can handle the TVS, basically another $1500+. Can't forget the basic engine $2000+. Not sure what you mean "by scratch", but hope that answers it for you.

A 2GR is much more invasive. Accroding to few that where done for the lotus crowd, you are looking at ~$15000 as a functional minimum. Never heard of anyone talk about in the mrs world. If you are willing to all the wrenching and a bunch of fab it might be about the same as a TVS 2ZZ.

The C series trans will handle the power OK, as long as you aren't doing drag launches - it's still a low torque/high rpm setup. No prosolos for you.

O
 
#5 ·
I had a lotus with the stock long block 2zz and an intercooled SC(VF2). Biggest problem was the traction control would freak out b/c it had so much torque. I was putting down 250 rhwp but was limited by the tunability of the Lotus ECU. I did not want to pay the $3k for the software/hardware to go full programmable, but may have been able to get closer to 300 whp without anymore hardware if we could have tuned fuel and ignition for my car on the dyno rather than using an off the shelf tune. This is not an issue with the MRS. Just get a PFC or any other decent box and go!
 
#6 ·
Also if you want to know more about the limits of the 2zz and the transmission etc, you can look on the Celica forums. You can also look at Monkey Wrench Racing since they offer tuning, turbos and SC's as well as built NA and FI short and long blocks for the 1zz and 2zz.
 
#8 ·
You can make 300hp with a supercharger on the spyder without an intercooler. The intake manifold for the supercharger is metal and tends to heat soak.

The Greddy supercharger fit the 2zz spyder without cutting the firewall. However without intercooler and with methanol you can get mayber 240-250 max out of it but once it starts to get hot the horsepower drop to around 220hp.

You have to push around 14psi of boost to get 300hp from a 2zz with a supercharger.

My 2zz turbo makes 300hp at 9psi with a good intercooler.
 
#9 ·
^^I wouldn't use any forced induction without an intercooler. My supercharged spyder would heat soak very easily and that was on the street. On a track with our ambients it would have been done for. On cool days it was nice but on hot days it gave up a LOT of power^^

T answer your other questions, the last (only?) V6 spyder that sold in the US went for around $17,000.

Boosted (well running) zz spyders go for $8,000 to $15,000 depending on a lot of other factors. If you just want a race car get a beatup salvage title one.

I don't beleive that lighter is always better so I'll leave that one to the titanium lug nut nazis. Usually its an excuse for driving inadequacies, quite frankly. I've seen more stock MK2s destroy purpose built race cars around a road course and the main difference is driver experience level. And MK2s are "heavy" ;)
 
#10 ·
Keep in mind guys hes talking about running sole E85...

Intercooler isnt as important if you arent running pump gas.
 
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