High idle after MSPNP2 install - MR2 Owners Club Message Board
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old March 9th, 2017, 11:44 Thread Starter
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High idle after MSPNP2 install

I installed my new MS last night (with the EBC) and did the usual timing setting per instructions. But, I was still idling pretty high ~1500rpm. I think the target is about 800rpm. But, is there a setting in the tuning software that I need to adjust or something mechanical?
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old March 9th, 2017, 13:11
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If you have the auto tune function along with wideband have a look under idle control. This function will auto adjust the VE table then use WUE-Warm Up Enrichment to get that right.

There are loads of other adjustments but will take some time to get dialled in. PWM for IAC is another that will help.

jim
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old March 9th, 2017, 14:00 Thread Starter
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Hey Jim,

Well, I had an email into DIYAutotune to ask a question about the need for a wideband. I never did get a wide band and just running off the OEM (Narrowband?). So, is that going to prohibit me from tuning it properly? I was going to take it to a tuner next week, is not having a wideband going to limit him as well?

Maybe it's my newb-ness, but I assumed the 3SGTE base map I downloaded would at least had it idle correctly (guess not). In the meantime, I'll look into PWM... Thanks!
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old March 9th, 2017, 15:45
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Not having a wideband certainly limits the road tuning ability. The stock narrow band does next to nothing as far as info back on the AFR's. This isn't really a problem for the Tuner as he will install a wideband in exhaust to go by. Doubt if he will use the autotune function but rather spend hours plugging numbers into tables with trial by error. Look into VEAL (auto tune function) as its really worth the effort. Think it costs about $69 extra on top of basic free TS version.

I would consider installing an O2 yourself at some later date though as very useful to complete your own changes. It only takes a small mod to disrupt the whole tune and it can become quite expensive going back to Tuner for minor stuff.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old March 9th, 2017, 16:24 Thread Starter
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Ok cool. Last question. If I were to get an Innovative Wide band and gauge I saw on Twos R Us, could that take the place of my OEM o2 or has to be in addition to?
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old March 9th, 2017, 18:23
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The wideband takes place of the narrow band so no need to have both. It is not a good idea to have that close to turbo outlet so it may suffer heat damage. Recommendations are to have 18" away which is generally at lower end of DP. This is why all aftermarket DP's come with a spare port.

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old March 18th, 2017, 16:43 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benckj View Post
If you have the auto tune function along with wideband have a look under idle control. This function will auto adjust the VE table then use WUE-Warm Up Enrichment to get that right.

There are loads of other adjustments but will take some time to get dialled in. PWM for IAC is another that will help.

jim
So, I finally got the wideband installed and tried to start and test the idle again. It still wants to hold the idle at about 2500rpm. I went under the "Tune Analyze Now!" and went through the WUE autotune process. But, that didn't seem to make a difference. It says the "02 is out of range". http://mr2.contrivdesign.net/main.ph...e-autotune.jpg

I really want to just get it drive-able so that I can take it to the tuner Monday. But thanks in advance for any advice.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old March 18th, 2017, 19:58
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That is really unusual. I'd turn off all the idle control functions and drop your VE table values down around the low MAP range and try there to get some stable O2 values. From there just manually change VE until it is running well enough for road trip.

Jim
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2017, 17:32 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benckj View Post
That is really unusual. I'd turn off all the idle control functions and drop your VE table values down around the low MAP range and try there to get some stable O2 values. From there just manually change VE until it is running well enough for road trip.

Jim
Did you mean turn off "Idle valve type" and "Idle Advance" (Idle advance is already off and the docs say not to mess w/ the type that's preselected)?

I was able to do the auto WUE tuning again while the engine was actually cold. It didn't state anything in the yellow box, so not sure if that matters. After doing that, it starts and idles aroun 2100 rpm right now. I tried to tinker with the VE table manually and it started to sputter a little.

I also noticed that when I enable boost control, I can no longer start my car. Tunerstudio says there's a configuration conflict that I need to correct.

The timing setup seems straight-forward. My timing was already at 10deg, so I basically confirmed and just changed from "use table"->"fixed"->"use table" again. Could I have messed that up or something???
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2017, 19:58
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You definitely have something wrong somewhere. What firmware are you running?

Might also be helpful to send me a copy of your tune, the msq file so I can go over.

To confirm timing is fine to alter to fixed then check with a light then move back to table. Boost control should not make any difference unless it's wired wrong. I am not using this function myself.

james.benck@contact.energy.co.nz

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2017, 10:28
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I wasn't entirely sure on what was done to check timing - have you confirmed the timing you see in TunerStudio matches what you see with a timing light? Just wanted to make sure as too much timing can raise the idle speed. So can running too rich.

The boost control issue is pretty straightforward - to enable boost control output as a pulsed boost control, you have to disable using it as a programmable on/off output. If both functions are enabled at once (it's set up as an on/off output for the stock valve), the ECU doesn't know which one it is supposed to be and attempts to lock its outputs into a safe state until the problem can be resolved.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2017, 13:25 Thread Starter
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Hey Matt,

Thanks for the info on the turbo config issue. That sounds like what my problem was.

Regarding the timing/idle issue. I just looked at the "Timing for Fixed Advance" setting (set to 10 degrees) in TunerStudio and confirmed that it was also running at 10 degrees on the crank, when set to Fixed timing. Is that not right? Was I supposed to verify what MS was reading by looking at the Timing Advance gauge in TunerStudio? If so, I'll double-check that tonight, but I think they read the same. If they're off, is that when I use the Trigger Wizard and/or adjusting the dizzy to get the Timing Advance gauge in TunerStudio to match what it's reading at the crank?

My tuner suggested (after warmup) to:
- Set the idle control to Closed loop
- Adjust the duty cycle lower to close the valve a little bit

I didn't mess with anything the downloaded MR2 basemap had set for these, but those suggestions made sense to me. Was going to try that later too...
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2017, 18:27 Thread Starter
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All is well again!!!

So, after I let the car warm up. I set the Idle Control Algorithm to "Closed Loop", burned the changes and restarted the car. Upon restart the car idled at about 900rpm!!! Praise the Lord (and you guys - of course)!!!

I knew it was something simple/stupid. I drove it around lightly while I let TunerStudio autotune the VE table. It seems to run nice and smooth. So, now I can take it to tuner tomorrow!

I did notice that at idle my turbo gauge reads at about -5psi, instead of -20psi (before the MS and new EBC install). Vacuum leak??? I guess I'll just see what the tuner says.

Thanks again Jim and Matt!! It's nice not feeling alone when you're stuck...
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2017, 19:42
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Hey that's good news. There will still be plenty of things to fine tune as you go along but your learning about how it works now. I'm a little confused with the closed loop control as I use PWM which controls the IACV with 8 steps on cycle control.

As your running VEAL did you get the O2 to work well in TS? Helps to run a data log when out driving and then analyse later. Plot things like;
> RPM
> Spark Advance
> injector duty cycle
> MAP
> Coolant Temp
> IAT
> knock
> battery voltage

Very useful to set-up the AFR target table using the tool generator. This way you are setting what values you are trying to target while using VEAL. Good for Tuner to understand as I found most adjust the VE and Spark tables manually which takes a fair amount of time. VEAL does quicker and better without all the guesswork.

jim

Last edited by benckj; March 20th, 2017 at 23:44.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old March 21st, 2017, 09:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiba21 View Post
Hey Matt,

Thanks for the info on the turbo config issue. That sounds like what my problem was.

Regarding the timing/idle issue. I just looked at the "Timing for Fixed Advance" setting (set to 10 degrees) in TunerStudio and confirmed that it was also running at 10 degrees on the crank, when set to Fixed timing.
Yep, that's correct.

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