New lower cost version of the 2GR-FE waterneck modification - MR2 Owners Club Message Board
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old March 13th, 2017, 21:51 Thread Starter
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New lower cost version of the 2GR-FE waterneck modification

So the guy that does my production welding retired about 9 months ago and I've been trying to figure out what to do about the modified waternecks. I've never been thrilled with the pricing on those it's always been a bit too high and the profitability has been quite low. So, i decided i'd make the best of it and use the forced change as an excuse to pick up a new manufacturing method.

So here we are, I've gotten my first prototype cast parts made and i'm pretty excited!.

So now what all of you guys are here to see, here's the new part and the design idea behind it:



The part angles and extends the outlet slightly, making the stock coolant hose fit much better. it also still has the port for the temperature sensor and the extra hose for the filler neck.

I think I'll sell these two ways, just the bare part for you to install on your own waterneck and also as a fully assembled unit on a new waterneck.

Assembly is relatively simple and does not require welding which is nice since the stock waterneck is generally contaminated with coolant and does not weld nicely.

You start by cutting off the rib:


then using sandpaper you clean up the outlet:


and slip everything together. the fit is pretty loose with about 0.2mm to 0.5mm of space to spare.

From there the parts are simply low temperature brazed together for a very durable permanent attachment.

I need to work out the exact pricing but the DIY version will save quite a bit of money over the previous setup. I'd expect the fully assembled unit to be about the same cost as the previous one.

and now that i've done this i can apply this new manufacturing method to parts i need on the supercharger mount kit without as much fear.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old March 14th, 2017, 11:51
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What about something like this? Too much fabrication time to make a worthwhile case for it?

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old March 14th, 2017, 12:45 Thread Starter
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There's a few issues with that setup, one is it still requires buying a new waterneck to start with which brings the cost up, it also requires welding and i lost my production grade aluminum welding guy (he retired) and the final issue is it interferes with the rotrex supercharger setup i'm working on right now.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old March 14th, 2017, 13:30
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Thanks, all valid points. Good thing I have a spare water neck here... just in case...
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old March 14th, 2017, 21:35 Thread Starter
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I tried brazing the assembly together today and i'm afraid to admit this was a bit of a failure. I've done more research and i will try again tomorrow. there's a trick to it and i just need more practice. Unfortunately that means the DIY side of this is a bit trickier than i had envisioned.

if any of you guys have advice on aluminium socket brazing i'm certainly willing to hear you guys out. This is not something i have a bunch of experience with.

Last edited by Gouky; March 14th, 2017 at 21:45.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old March 15th, 2017, 02:53
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JB Weld?
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old March 15th, 2017, 06:36 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimKing View Post
JB Weld?
I'm sure that would actually work well but i'm not going that way for the production ones.

The truth is i try to avoid doing the actual production manufacturing for time and quality reasons, I'll do some digging around i should be able to find some HVAC guy that has a bunch of experience doing aluminum socket brazing.

I've also ordered a few different fluxes to see if i can get a better surface wetting.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old March 15th, 2017, 07:37
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I had to sleeve and braze 4 of my aluminum a/c lines. I tried with a thin (1/16") solid aluminum brazing wire from an a/c shop with Kester 979 flux. I also used Bernzomatic AL-3 from either Homedpot or Lowes. This was over a year ago so memry is vague on details but the Bernzomatic was easier to use. I used propane on both.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old March 16th, 2017, 18:41 Thread Starter
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This is aggravating, i tried again tonight for the 4th time and lost another waterneck. The problem is i'm trying to heat from one layer to the next and get the inside metal to 750F while keeping the outside metal below 1200F but it's such a large bit of aluminum that it cools too fast. I think the only way this is going to get brazed together is by using an oven that can get the whole assembly to 750-800F and keep it there for long enough for the flux to work it's magic and the brazing to work into the joint.

I can get 350F brazing rod but the flux still needs high temperature to work off the aluminum's bullet proof oxide layer.

I think I'm just going to have to find a new low volume aluminum production welder. I've got a few leads i will investigate but I'm also open to check people out you guys may know.

but something that has become obvious lately is that a bunch of you guys can weld aluminum for your own builds so i will make this available separately anyways for those people, it just isn't the silver bullet i was thinking it was.

on a side note i could use a couple more waterneck cores for testing the options. does anyone have one kicking around they can sell for a reasonable price?

Last edited by Gouky; March 16th, 2017 at 18:46.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old March 16th, 2017, 19:21
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On a side note i could use a couple more waterneck cores for testing the options. does anyone have one kicking around they can sell for a reasonable price?
I can send you the take off I still have if that helps...

Peter
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old March 16th, 2017, 19:25 Thread Starter
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I can send you the take off I still have if that helps...

Peter
That would be great, how much would you like for it?
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old March 16th, 2017, 20:47
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You may want to try pre-heating the assembly in an oven first before bringing it to temp with your torch. Not sure the exact temp but I can look it up again if needed.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old March 17th, 2017, 22:56 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rolorex View Post
You may want to try pre-heating the assembly in an oven first before bringing it to temp with your torch. Not sure the exact temp but I can look it up again if needed.
I actually did try this. I have an oven in the shop that goes to 500F i use to heat bearings and preheat weldments when necessary. I'm sure someone with more skill can do this with brazing but that person is not me and at the end of the day if i have to send it out i may as well get it welded.

I've got someone lined up now to do the welding now. I'll get a few test pieces done before going all in but i'm not expecting any issues.

overall this is slightly disappointing that it isn't as easy as expected but since the new welding guy is willing to do these using used waternecks i should be able to offer it three ways ways: bare casting, welded on used OEM casting and welded on new OEM casting.

I've also gotten some feedback back that only offering the oil cooler version is less than ideal so i'll see what i can do about offering both again.
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