My 2GR-FE Swap Thread - MR2 Owners Club Message Board
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post #1 of 152 (permalink) Old December 31st, 2016, 15:03 Thread Starter
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My 2GR-FE Swap Thread

Now that I actually have the motor, I decided to start a new thread to document the swap. Picked it up on Tuesday using my tiny tire trailer towed behind my wife's Subaru.

Got it cleaned up and on the engine stand, and here it is:


Got the grinding done to mate the engine and transmission.





And started mocking up my Y-pipe.









No welding done to it yet, but I think it's almost ready. I had initially planned on putting flex sections in each of the secondary pipes, similar to Ben's design. But the flex pipes that I got from MandrelBends.com neck down pretty significantly (1-7/8 actual ID), so I am thinking of just doing one flex after the merge. Or am I just setting myself up for failure this way? Thermal expansion causing cracking is my main concern.

I also moved the merge and the 180 rearward a little, and by my calculations I am about 1/3" from equal length. No idea if the lengths are ideal in any way (about 18.5"), but at least they are the same.

You also may notice that the Y-pipe flanges are not present, yet it is holding itself in place. I am designing it so that the pipe will protrude through the flange and gasket and into the header flange by 1/8" or so. This way the alignment is guaranteed to be perfect when it is installed.
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Last edited by Alex W; December 31st, 2016 at 15:06.
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post #2 of 152 (permalink) Old January 1st, 2017, 04:28
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Nice. Where's the Y-merge piece from? I'd think at least one flex section between either header and the merge would be a good idea.
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post #3 of 152 (permalink) Old January 1st, 2017, 08:40
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Nice. Where's the Y-merge piece from?
Cone Engineering. I think the address is Megs Exhaust Warehouse-Exhaust Systems, Exhaust Collectors, Components, Exhaust Conical, Mufflers, Exhaust Tips.
You can also follow nod them on mandrelbends.com if you dig around on their site, but they're made by Cone Engineering.

They work great and it makes for easy positioning and welding.
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post #4 of 152 (permalink) Old January 1st, 2017, 09:20 Thread Starter
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I looked extensively on mandrelbends.com, even searched the part number, it doesn't appear that they carry the Cone Engineering merge pieces any more. I ended up ordering it directly from Cone Engineering.


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post #5 of 152 (permalink) Old January 1st, 2017, 18:24 Thread Starter
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Question for anyone with more header design experience than I... Is there any significant benefit to attempting to go equal length on the secondaries? Most of the info I can find on header design is for v8's, and the articles pretty much ends at the 4-1 collector.

My current mockup I think achieves equal lengths, but I am worried that the exit of the merge is going to be too close to the cross member, and I will have trouble getting up over it. I am planning on tacking the Y-pipe together and putting the motor in the car before I finalize anything, just in case.


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post #6 of 152 (permalink) Old January 1st, 2017, 23:18
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I wouldn't worry to much about thermal expansion and just put a flex pipe after the merge.
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post #7 of 152 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2017, 12:01
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I just lost everything I typed by trying to add a photo, lol.

I believe that I ordered all my pipes and v-bands from MandrelBends.com and the flex sections from VerosciousMotorsports.com. The flexes seemed to be straight through without a reduction in diameter.

I did the same at the header flange by sticking my pipes 1/8-1/4" into the collector. This takes some stress off the gasket as well for a better seal.
I also placed the a/f sensors right after that flange, so any air leaks there will cause a huge issue with their readings. Just be careful what direction you point the sensors so they clear axles/mounts/wiring/exhaust ect.

As for creating the rest of the exhaust, there really is no other way to do it other than after the engine is installed. I even had to dimple my pipe as it went over the crossmember in two spots. But I did go full 3" after the collector planning for future upgrades.

Lookin good so far! Keep it up.
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post #8 of 152 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2017, 14:05
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the equal length y-pipe does occasionally change the note but it seems to have very little effect on power (if any) in this application.

something to note is the engine tilts back which means your rear pipe will be pretty close to the ground in those pictures. also your merge location won't leave you enough room to go over the crossmember.
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post #9 of 152 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2017, 14:24
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Not sure if this will apply to downstream areas, but take a peek at this crazy engine masters header test:
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post #10 of 152 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2017, 14:51 Thread Starter
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the equal length y-pipe does occasionally change the note but it seems to have very little effect on power (if any) in this application.

something to note is the engine tilts back which means your rear pipe will be pretty close to the ground in those pictures. also your merge location won't leave you enough room to go over the crossmember.
Yeah, I have adjusted the angle that the motor attaches to the engine stand since those were taken (it's about 14 in case anyone is looking for this info), so I can get a better idea of what everything will look like. I am generally a bit worried about ground clearance as well, but it looks like it might not be worse than the flex section of my Berk exhaust is with the 3S...

If there isn't any significant benefit to getting the Y-pipe equal length, I will probably push the merge forward a few inches, I have the same concern with getting over the cross member where it is now.


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post #11 of 152 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2017, 16:01
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Dunno if this helps, it is Marc's design, made by DDPR. It clears the CM easily and mates perfectly to a Berk.



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post #12 of 152 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2017, 17:10 Thread Starter
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I have been looking at that design as well for inspiration. I am half way considering making my own merge, similar to that one. What I'm not sure of is if I will restrict flow by bringing them together at 2.25" diameter, and THEN expanding to 3", or if it will actually have a venturi effect. Some headers benefit from that, but the smallest diameter in the collector is still supposed to be larger than the incoming pipes. Exhaust System Technology: Science and Implementation of High Performance Exhaust Systems


On a different topic, today I have been doing some of the preliminary work for the wiring and re-pining the harness to match the 2007 ECU.

Hopefully this will be useful to someone else as well. Even if you aren't re-pinning, the 2007 ECU portion should be a useful reference. If anything is unclear let me know and I will try to clarify it.

http://wilhelmraceworks.com/document...u_pinouts.xlsx

Overall, the news on the re-pin project is surprisingly good
1. All in all, 59 pins need to be moved. There are more pins that changed location, but they won't be needed by most swaps.
2. The best part is, the wire color changed on only 6 of the pins, and of those, only 3 will be used in a typical swap. So once re-pinned, nearly all of the wire colors will match the 2007 wiring diagram.
3. Toyota swapped small pins for large ones (or vice versa) on 6 pins. Fortunately, once again only 3 of them are needed for a swap, unless you plan to run post-cat o2's or the purge valve.


There are a couple of other new vs old ECU / harness differences that are worth noting:
1. There are also three new pins on the 2012 ECU, all appearing to be related to if you have a "smart key" or not.
2. The 2012 does not appear to use a battery current sensor. In fact, the alternator, though it has four pins, only one is connected to the ECU (pin ALT).
3. This is more a curiosity than anything. Though there are still both VCV1 and VCV2 pins on the ECU (for the VVT sensors), VCV2 is only used to power the bank 2 intake sensor. The other three sensors are all powered off of VCV1, and a power wire to the canister pump module is also spliced into VCV1. Why they did this I cannot fathom, and it makes for a very strange looking section of the wiring diagram.

There are also two wires present in my 2012 small plug pigtail that I have not been able to positively identify. One I am pretty sure is for cruise control, and the other most likely a ground wire, but I haven't found them on any of the 2012 wiring diagrams that I have. Not a problem though, as I am planning on re-pinning to the 2007 pinout anyway.

One last thing, a big thank you to Marc for the 2012 wiring diagrams!


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post #13 of 152 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2017, 17:13
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Aren't you worried about destroying your oil, with that exhaust pipe right next to your oilpan?
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post #14 of 152 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2017, 17:15 Thread Starter
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Aren't you worried about destroying your oil, with that exhaust pipe right next to your oilpan?
Not really. I have a 19 row oil cooler in the RH side vent, and on my boosted 3S on the hottest track day of the summer I couldn't get my oil temps (measured in the pan) over about 230f. Could be a concern with no oil cooler however.


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post #15 of 152 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2017, 22:21
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Aren't you worried about destroying your oil, with that exhaust pipe right next to your oilpan?
Yes this was an obvious concern for me. The clearance is very tight, too close even to wrap the exhaust. I've ceramic coated the oil pan and the closest sections of the y-pipe. I will be monitoring oil temps and if called for add an oil cooler. I've also swapped to a TRD 170F thermostat, and a new aluminum radiator. Using ACEA A3/B4 10W40. Planning on frequent oil changes - certainly not the OEM OCI. Still my biggest concern is when the engine is shut off and the oil comes to rest next to the hot pipe. We shall see.
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post #16 of 152 (permalink) Old January 21st, 2017, 11:22 Thread Starter
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Progress is being made, though slowly at times!

Using the wiring information posted above, I next went about de-pinning all of the un-needed wires from the ECU connectors:


I also removed 14 unused wires from the small plug.

And then unwrapping the harness and removing those wires completely:




The large boss and two ribs on the upper oil pan were causing some clearance issues with my exhaust. And I'm always looking for a reason to use my mill!




It will have to come back out for more work, but I wanted to get the motor in the car for some clearance / length checking on the exhaust, oil cooler line routing, wiring harness, etc.


ECU mounted in the trunk. Mounting bracket is a bit temporary at the moment, I will post a picture of it once it is finished.


With the motor in the car I started re-pinning the fuse box connectors from the Rav4 connectors to the MR2 connectors (salvaged from a hacked up 5SFE harness). I also discovered at this point that my angle measurement that I posted above was incorrect. It's actually reclined at about 14, as measured on a flat surface such as the oil pan mounting plane.

A few wiring notes:
1) The fuse box connectors are of the exact same style, so the pins can be interchanged. The wires are all longer than needed, so very little splicing is needed, most of the wires simply plug into the proper slot on the MR2 connector, and plug into the factory fuse box. The extra wire length will be wrapped up in the harness. This also means that some of the previously removed extra wires can be re-used to wire the temp gauge and reverse switch.
2) There is a brown wire in the Rav4 fuse box connector that was a ground wire for the cruise control switch. It would appear to be unnecessary in the swap, but the MR2 temperature gauge needs a similar ground, so I re-purposed it to that.
3) Nearly all of the Rav4 fuse box wires need to connect to the MR2 fuse box. Nearly all of the Rav4 ECU small plug wires need to connect to the body harness in the trunk. It's a little bit uncanny how similar the wiring is on two cars build 21 years apart. Like the Toyota electrical engineering manual spells out what wires should go where, and everyone has been working from the same manual all these years. Granted, a lot of it has to do with which functions are required in which locations, but at any rate, it makes the wiring pretty easy.

One thing I discovered when mating the engine/transmission, my transmission is missing the two lower holes that would match up to the bolt holes on the upper oil pan.
Borrowing Marc's composite image below, it is numbers 1 and 8 that I am missing. I am guessing this is a 91 vs 93+ transmission difference? I will have to look once I get it taken apart, but I don't think there is enough material there on the transmission to drill and tap for those two. I have the other four, I guess they will have to be good enough.


Also, after doing some measurements with the motor in the car, I have some renewed concern about ground clearance with the exhaust. I will need to do a bit more measuring / see if I can compress it vertically a little in the merge area, but I may end up building my own merge where the pipes don't have to cross over each other.
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post #17 of 152 (permalink) Old January 22nd, 2017, 17:40 Thread Starter
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For anyone who has done the "weld AN fittings to the oil pan" mod, do you have any tips for getting it to weld? I am having a heck of a time making any progress on that. I will admit my aluminum welding skills aren't the best, but I can lay a decent bead on an aluminum test sample. But then I turn to the pan, and immediately it starts turning black, won't puddle, and if it starts to puddle and I try to add filler it just turns into this nasty gray/brown blob that won't melt. Obviously I have some contamination issues going on, but I'm not sure what else to do about it. So far I have sanded everything down with a die grinder / sanding disk, then cleaned it with my aluminum-use-only stainless wire brush. It LOOKS very clean and shinny. Pan was cleaned in hot soapy water before that. Just curious what process some of you guys used on this, and if you ran into any similar issues.


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post #18 of 152 (permalink) Old January 22nd, 2017, 17:47
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It's really hard to get oil contamination out. i'd recommend just taping it for the desired fittings. otherwise baking it at 500F for 4-6 hours also works.
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post #19 of 152 (permalink) Old January 22nd, 2017, 21:50 Thread Starter
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It's really hard to get oil contamination out. i'd recommend just taping it for the desired fittings. otherwise baking it at 500F for 4-6 hours also works.
Yeah, it is definitely something I have struggled with in the past on other projects.

I had thought of tapping it for an NPT fitting, but for some reason had written that idea off without fully investigating it. It turns out, the ID of the stock ports is .72, which just so happens to also be the tap drill size for 1/2-14 NPT, which should have the same ID as the -10 fitting I was planning on welding on anyway. Easy!


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post #20 of 152 (permalink) Old January 23rd, 2017, 10:46
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Besides cleaning it like crazy. A grinding wheel can introduce contaminants I have found, and usually avoid it. Clean and brush. Get your puddle started and stay patient. Make sure its ready to go before the first weld.
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