MKII MR2 audio install How-To guide - Page 3 - MR2 Owners Club Message Board
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post #41 of 58 (permalink) Old October 11th, 2014, 07:05
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Not one that would be worth messing with.
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post #42 of 58 (permalink) Old October 19th, 2014, 13:21
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Originally Posted by Jimbox View Post
Anybody know of a compact powered sub unit that actually fits under the passenger seat of a MKII?? I really want a bit more boom, but dont want to put one behind the seat..(T-Top, besides im 6'2", and have the seats ALL the way back...lol)
There are solutions in this thread, ignore the fact that it is from the MKI section, it will point you to some aftermarket options.

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post #43 of 58 (permalink) Old October 19th, 2014, 14:35
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To each his own, but imo, get a real sub. If you simply can't leave the t-tops in (or better yet, leave them at home), then all you have to do is simply move the enclosure to the passenger floor board on that very day when you feel like you want to be the Bandit or whatever. Simply use a long enough lead to the woofer to do this...or make a quick connect extension. Or...you can mess with all of these band-aid methods and puts lots of time and money into it - and *maybe* you will get something that is equivalent to the factory MKII subwoofer, lol.
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post #44 of 58 (permalink) Old October 20th, 2014, 00:16
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Originally Posted by carcrazyguy View Post
To each his own, but imo, get a real sub. If you simply can't leave the t-tops in (or better yet, leave them at home), then all you have to do is simply move the enclosure to the passenger floor board on that very day when you feel like you want to be the Bandit or whatever. Simply use a long enough lead to the woofer to do this...or make a quick connect extension. Or...you can mess with all of these band-aid methods and puts lots of time and money into it - and *maybe* you will get something that is equivalent to the factory MKII subwoofer, lol.
Personally, I'm a 12" behind the passenger seat ported to my side kind-of-guy, I slip both T-tops behind my Sparco, it doesn't move and I'm 5'11". I think I might exercise some other T-top options soon though.

However, since the recent question was regarding leaving the area behind the seats open, there are relatively inexpensive options that fit under, and if you double it (a sub under each seat) you won't win competitions but you will definitely hear the difference. Yes, it will leave the oem sub behind... not hard to beat oem tech from 1990. Besides, I don't think the question was "how can I change the way I like things so that it's the same as the way other people like things?"
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post #45 of 58 (permalink) Old October 20th, 2014, 11:19
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I don't think the question was "how can I change the way I like things so that it's the same as the way other people like things?"
The (most recent) question was about doing something that's going to sound poor, take lots of time, and probably cost more money than simply doing things right. Say what you will, but I have this strange tendancy to try to save people from such nonsense if I can.

When one uses an enclosure that's smaller than the woofer requires, it limits the frequency response at the bottom end, while making the woofer excessively punchy. It's actually quite irritating with many forms of music. Then when you position a woofer under the seat, etc. you also kill any chance for good cabin gain, a smooth response curve, etc. and may also allow the listener to hear cone noise over musical output too.

To the lamen, he will simply assume the end result is still better than no sub...and may even think it sounds "decent" if he has no frame of reference. And I realize that. But that doesn't mean those of us that know better shoudn't at least try to inform people. Well, apparently you do...
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post #46 of 58 (permalink) Old October 20th, 2014, 14:22
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Originally Posted by carcrazyguy View Post
When one uses an enclosure that's smaller than the woofer requires, it limits the frequency response at the bottom end, while making the woofer excessively punchy.
Units designed to slip under seats take that into account with their enclosure designs. It's usually when someone tries to fit a large and then underpowered sub into a small "custom" enclosure that should take up half the cabin to be optimal woofer volume, that the results are unbalanced, weird, distorted and annoying.
Quote:
If you simply can't leave the t-tops in (or better yet, leave them at home), then all you have to do is simply move the enclosure to the passenger floor board on that very day when you feel like you want to be the Bandit or whatever. Simply use a long enough lead to the woofer to do this...or make a quick connect extension.
So... I read the above, and imagine a guy going on a date, wanting to have some tune-age to set the mood, and his girl is getting wet because he left the T-tops at home, her heels are poking holes in the sub that's on the passenger floor, her legs draped over the enclosure, and the guy yelling at her, "What do you think of the bass??!"

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a "committed" system/car. But as to this particular application (Jimbox), it is entirely possible to supplement the oem bass with one (or two as I recommend) that slip under the seat(s). It will be a noticeable addition... with oem seats you also get more bass that passes through the seat... you will feel the difference. With (hard-shell) Sparcos etc, not as much... One doesn't always have to sacrifice comforts and habits, especially if a customer isn't shooting for a lot more bass (or in the near future). I don't want to go on flogging a dead horse, I think the points are made.

Last edited by Gandalf; October 20th, 2014 at 14:27.
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post #47 of 58 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2014, 13:24
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Units designed to slip under seats take that into account with their enclosure designs.
If I didn't think you were just trying to play opposing side for sport, I would say you're really a glass half full kind of guy. Such units intentionally sacrifice response and performance for their purpose built application. To put it bluntly, these "under seat" subwoofer designs sound like "something's just not right" because that is in fact the case. There is no conspiracy here...it's simply a band-aid solution for people that just want "some bass" in situations where they can't add anything else. If you were to call the manufacturer, they would admit as much. My original point is that the only time to use such units is when nothing else will work. In this case, there are much better options. That would/should be the end of the discussion - if you weren't trying to play devils advocate. It's clear you are. I have a feeling you won't let it go, but in a perfect world, it would end it with this: If t-tops being out are much more important than a good sounding stereo, that's a person's choice. But reazlize that the end result with the units in question is going to be poor. The "bass" these units produce sounds forced, articifical, etc. and that is further exacerbated by the placement of them.

What's odd however is how you don't realize (or ignore) this, yet seem to have the confidence to write as if you have some techincal background. Then again, should I expect any different on a forum, lol. Whatever. Any subwoofer that slips under the seat in an MKII is going to sound like crap when compared to, well, any standard excursion unit in median or better airspace - with good placement. Even you won't argue that. And once one has heard what the system can sound like, there's simply no going back. I am only trying to save these people money, time, and dissapointment. You are effectively doing the opposite just so you can banter with me on a forum...which is rather self indulgent if you ask me.

Here comes the subjective part: I would rather have no bass at all than "wompy" sounding "thuds" from the units being discussed. If one is against the various solutions that have been discussed so far, they should simply focus on a good pair of door speakers paired with the factory sub. But the funny part is that we don't even know what the person asking the question actually thinks since you decided to answer for him and run with it.
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post #48 of 58 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2014, 22:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carcrazyguy View Post
If I didn't think you were just trying to play opposing side for sport, I would say you're really a glass half full kind of guy. Such units intentionally sacrifice response and performance for their purpose built application. To put it bluntly, these "under seat" subwoofer designs sound like "something's just not right" because that is in fact the case. There is no conspiracy here...it's simply a band-aid solution for people that just want "some bass" in situations where they can't add anything else. If you were to call the manufacturer, they would admit as much. My original point is that the only time to use such units is when nothing else will work. In this case, there are much better options. That would/should be the end of the discussion - if you weren't trying to play devils advocate. It's clear you are. I have a feeling you won't let it go, but in a perfect world, it would end it with this: If t-tops being out are much more important than a good sounding stereo, that's a person's choice. But reazlize that the end result with the units in question is going to be poor. The "bass" these units produce sounds forced, articifical, etc. and that is further exacerbated by the placement of them.

What's odd however is how you don't realize (or ignore) this, yet seem to have the confidence to write as if you have some techincal background. Then again, should I expect any different on a forum, lol. Whatever. Any subwoofer that slips under the seat in an MKII is going to sound like crap when compared to, well, any standard excursion unit in median or better airspace - with good placement. Even you won't argue that. And once one has heard what the system can sound like, there's simply no going back. I am only trying to save these people money, time, and dissapointment. You are effectively doing the opposite just so you can banter with me on a forum...which is rather self indulgent if you ask me.

Here comes the subjective part: I would rather have no bass at all than "wompy" sounding "thuds" from the units being discussed. If one is against the various solutions that have been discussed so far, they should simply focus on a good pair of door speakers paired with the factory sub. But the funny part is that we don't even know what the person asking the question actually thinks since you decided to answer for him and run with it.
You're preaching to the choir. The question wasn't "what will sound better?" And I was answering him. Then commenting on your suggestion for him to completely change what he wants, or be irrevocably condemned to a sub-par sub-standard enjoyment (puns intended).
I already clarified that it's not what I would personally do, although I have built under-seat FG enclosures that did allow full movement + T-tops, and did have good freq response.

You've been told (until Jimbox replies to clarify or change his position) that behind the seats is not an option for him. I'm rolling with that because, well, I'm listening to what he's asking...
As for technical background, will a Bmus degree, 25 years of studio experience, a dozen years of audio installations, and the equivalent of a digital recording studio in my car be enough for you? lol

None of that matters when you tell someone what they want is unimportant. C'mon you're telling MR2 owners to leave their Ttops at home.

Last edited by Gandalf; October 22nd, 2014 at 11:29.
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post #49 of 58 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2014, 23:18
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You've been told (until Jimbox replies to clarify or change his position) that behind the seats is not an option for him.
Yes, and I gave him a way around that - one that many MR2 oweners have done for years. And before he could even comment one way or another about my suggestion, you felt the need to come back with a goofball worst case scenario about a date getting wet in in a MR2 or whatever that ____ was...don't even care to go back and see what your tounge in cheek comment was specifically.



Quote:
As for technical background, will a Bmus degree, 25 years of studio experience, a dozen years of audio installations, and the equivalent of a digital recording studio

Nah. Fwiw, I am actually that ^, more less, therefore I know that many of the things you said would tell me otherwise. Or maybe you're simply poor at it...there are plenty of horrible doctors that made it through decades of post education, for example. "Credentials" aside, if you really had something to add to the discussion, you would do more than play contrarian mixed with atttempted tangents about one's civil t-top rights and strange humor.

By the way, please learn to quote the part(s) of the post you are addressing, rather than the whole thing every time. Did they not teach that over at Phoenix univ, lol.

Last edited by carcrazyguy; October 21st, 2014 at 23:20. Reason: btw added
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post #50 of 58 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2014, 04:13
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Originally Posted by carcrazyguy View Post
Yes, and I gave him a way around that - one that many MR2 oweners have done for years. And before he could even comment one way or another about my suggestion, you felt the need to come back with a goofball worst case scenario about a date getting wet in in a MR2 or whatever that ____ was...don't even care to go back and see what your tounge in cheek comment was specifically.

Nah. Fwiw, I am actually that ^, more less, therefore I know that many of the things you said would tell me otherwise. Or maybe you're simply poor at it...there are plenty of horrible doctors that made it through decades of post education, for example. "Credentials" aside, if you really had something to add to the discussion, you would do more than play contrarian mixed with atttempted tangents about one's civil t-top rights and strange humor.

By the way, please learn to quote the part(s) of the post you are addressing, rather than the whole thing every time. Did they not teach that over at Phoenix univ, lol.
I think you're drifting a bit out of control... I don't see how providing some links to options that someone asks for, warrants a belittling of my abilities, and now my posting style? lol
And you're just making it easier to address all of what you say with shorter and less demanding replies. Honestly there's no need to spend time and pick out your sentences, who wants to read the last several posts anyway.

There are myriads of ways of installing all kinds of creative custom setups for "challenging" scenarios like small cabins and limited resonating space... ranging greatly in budget. It just wasn't the question. Sometimes people want to preserve the oem integrity as much as possible, without extensive or invasive installs, or losing their "comforts", or adding a lot more weight etc, but just want more than oem bass. And no, door installs won't deliver enough bass in my opinion, the shallow harder surfaces (and air flowing fairly freely) are better suited to mids/highs, not to mention a greater propensity for things to vibrate and buzz.

People can look at available options and decide. Sometimes even a small change or addition can make the difference they're looking for... not everybody wants a big sub/enclosure.
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post #51 of 58 (permalink) Old February 26th, 2015, 20:08
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I finally took out the crappy aftermarket HU that was in my car, and the original harness was hacked off. I saw the chart linked at the beginning of the is this page which doesn't mention speaker wires. Does anyone have one? or should I just run new speaker cables to all 4 corners?

I mainly want to know what the colors are for the speakers as the rest I think was on the other page.
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post #52 of 58 (permalink) Old February 27th, 2015, 01:22
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Madlife: If you compare your harness to the provided pinout, do you have exactly enough wires that would go to your speakers? Such as, if you have 6 speakers (2 tweeters, 2 door woofers, 2 rear panel woofers) you should have 12 extra wires (or possibly 8 if the tweeters are driven by the door woofers, I'm unsure). Typically in car audio systems, you'll see something like a green wire, then a green with white stripe. Those would be the positive/negative wires for a speaker. You can use process of elimination to figure out which wire pair goes where.

Take the F/L (Front Left) pair from the head unit harness, and touch it to a pair of unknown wires (by pair I mean solid color and solid color with a stripe). If you don't hear anything, try another pair. Keep going down the line. If you do hear something, you'll obviously be able to deduce which speaker that came from.

If you don't hear anything, then you have a couple options. Bad connection (such as somewhere from the harness to the speaker) or a blown speaker (though if you knew all speakers were working prior to this project, it's probably not the case) are your first things to check, probably.

If the head unit you just removed had all the speakers wired up, you should have documented which wires went where, as aftermarket units have followed an industry standard (for the most part) for some time now.



I went ahead and checked my BGB wire diagrams, it looks like I might be wrong on the color and color with stripe idea. I know this is a common convention, but for my 92 premium system, the wire convention is quite different (such as a light green wire, and blue wire, for positive/negative for right front speaker). On a positive note: It looks like the tweeters are just pulling from the door speakers, so yo ushoul only have 8-ish wires to check rather than 12.

Just in case Toyota did the sensible thing and kept the wire colors the same regardless if the amp was there. Here is what my wire diagram says:

Right Front Speaker: LT GRN, BLU
Right Front Tweeter: LT GRN, BLU (feeds off the door speaker wire)

Left Front: PINK, VIO
LF Tweeter: PINK, VIO (feeds off door speaker wire)

Right Rear: RED, WHT

Left Rear: BLK, YEL

Woofer: RED, BLU

For what it's worth: Another diagram shows the wire color starting with the letter "L" for the Right Front speaker.
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post #53 of 58 (permalink) Old February 27th, 2015, 17:17
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Thank you Fatboyxpc.

The way it was wired was strange. There was RCA to an amp under the seat. Stereo wires out from there back into the dash and spliced in with another set of splices off of it to the subwoofer amp. It was a horrible hack job.

It seemed like the subwoofer ran off one front and one rear speaker. one corner didn't work at all. it was a bad hack job.

I got a new HU that has a subwoofer out, and I removed all the wires involving the speaker amp under the seat. My plan is to get it all wired up speakers running off the HU, with a normal sub output.

Part of the problem is the hack job left everything very short inside the dash so it is hard to get to. Someone at work said I should just get my own speaker wire, run it to each corner and then just splice into the factory power/ground with the new head unit as well as the remote wire for the subwoofer. It honestly sounds like it will be the better way to go.. I just fixed my drivers door harness though and the thought of getting in there to push another wire through makes me cringe.
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post #54 of 58 (permalink) Old February 28th, 2015, 02:47
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The factory sub is driven from the rear panel speaker; so if you want to use that sub output from the new HU, you will have to run that wire yourself.

I've never been a fan of running wire around, but if you want to, I can understand why in this case. Even if I were you in your shoes, I would strive to reuse the existing wiring, if the only bad hack job is the radio harness. If the speaker wires are all intact, why spend the hours running more wire? That's me though, you do as you wish!

Regardless of which route you take - do yourself a favor and either label your wires so you know what's what, or take note of them next time you put a different unit in
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post #55 of 58 (permalink) Old February 28th, 2015, 19:59
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The factory sub is driven from the rear panel speaker; so if you want to use that sub output from the new HU, you will have to run that wire yourself.

I've never been a fan of running wire around, but if you want to, I can understand why in this case. Even if I were you in your shoes, I would strive to reuse the existing wiring, if the only bad hack job is the radio harness. If the speaker wires are all intact, why spend the hours running more wire? That's me though, you do as you wish!

Regardless of which route you take - do yourself a favor and either label your wires so you know what's what, or take note of them next time you put a different unit in

Step A was to get power hooked up but right now I can't even accomplish that.

I connected the Blue /w Orange stripe to yellow {power}, which should be the constant power. I assume this is what helps it retain its settings/time when the car is off

Then I connected the Gray with red strips to the HU red. Its weird because the head unit diagrams shows nothing of the red wires, but it seems in most modern ones, its the ignition. I assume this is what triggers the headunit on?

Or am I doing something wrong?

My clock is still on, and I read the radio fuse is on with the Clock. The HU fuse is good. I just borrowed a multimeter today, so I think that will work for testing power and ground tomorrow. I'm not in the mood to bear the 7 degree weather tonight.

My goal was after power, I will try the front speakers. If I can get them hooked in, the I'll try the rears. It might not be as bad as I originally though.
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post #56 of 58 (permalink) Old March 2nd, 2015, 10:00
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So there's a constanst 12v source, and a switched 12v source, and you need them both going to the HU in order for it to power on. I learned this the hard way. Some HU's have a switch (according to another user on here) that allows you to only use one of the sources. If you just connect the HU's yellow and red wires to the same power source on your car's harness, and then connect black to any available ground, the HU should power on.
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post #57 of 58 (permalink) Old February 22nd, 2016, 20:04
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I'm planning on redoing my audio system soon and was wondering if it would work to replace parts one at a time(woofers now, sub later, etc.) or should it all be done at the same time. And if not is there something I should do first.
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post #58 of 58 (permalink) Old February 22nd, 2016, 20:21
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Not enough info.

You need to specify what your car currently has, which system it initially came with, your budget, skill level, etc.
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